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Mike's avatar

Tom, I just wanted to chime in here to tell you how refreshing this was to read. It was level-headed and acknowledged both sides. Essays like this are what discourse SHOULD look like- a respectful understanding that there can be disagreement and there’s a way to handle it. I don’t comment or read politics on here, but I stumbled on this one and I’m glad I did. Keep up the good work. 👍

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Thomas Kuegler's avatar

Thanks so much Mike. I figured there's enough antagonizing as it is! I'm sick of it myself. I appreciate you stopping by to read.

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Maggie Jon's avatar

I haven't watched it, because I try to stay away from it all as much as I can for mental health reasons. But I love that you make a level-headed analysis of what happened, and don't lower yourself to what I unfortunately see happening everywhere now: bitching, moaning, childish behavior from both sides. It doesn't help anyone, and just polarizes even more. We should have a chat about society one day, I think it would be an interesting conversation.

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Thomas Kuegler's avatar

Don't worry--no need to watch it Maggie. You'll lose brain cells. 😆 Thanks for reading!!

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Michael Blissenbach's avatar

Very well stated, Tom! I agree.

The ideal we are looking for is the chivalrous medieval knights: they had a code of honor. They weren’t pansies but they also weren’t machismo jackasses either, at least the ideal knight wasn’t. And that ideal knight used his sword when he had to but he wasn’t going out and yelling at people and constantly saber rattling, but he also did use his sword when he had to. It takes discipline, prudence, and other virtues to be a noble knight, but that is what we men should seek to aspire to.

And in the Star Wars films, at least in the original trilogy, the Jedi embody that too. Sometimes they have to destroy someone with a lightsaber, but they didn’t seek out to do that and would only do so as a last resort. The Sith, on the other hand, are the exact opposite of that, and most people these days seem to see the Sith Lord as the ideal and not the Jedi, which is horrific. There’s nothing manly about that at all.

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Thomas Kuegler's avatar

Michael thanks for this comment. I agree. By any chance did you ever read The Witcher books or play those games at all? Your talk of knights got me thinking about it.

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Michael Blissenbach's avatar

And I can’t wait to meet you in person someday. I’d love to talk more about chivalry and friendship and manliness on a video call with you and your dad sometime.

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Michael Blissenbach's avatar

I’m not familiar with those. Who wrote the books and does Barnes and Noble have them?

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Thomas Kuegler's avatar

Andrzej Sapkowski wrote them and yes! I think you should be able to get the books there. They're pretty popular and the game was really fun to play. The Witcher 3. It's a classic and one of the best games of all time

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Michael Blissenbach's avatar

Thanks Tom, you’re the best. I’m grateful for you, dude! 👊🏻

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Teyani Whitman's avatar

Men become like dogs barking at each other… what an apt metaphor.

My response to the fiasco in the White House is a little different than yours…. I wonder to myself how the Dalai Lama would have behaved if he had been in the room. I suspect it would have changed everything.

There is even a fabulous example of this in an old star trek episode called Loud as a Whisper.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708744/

Where warring factions on a planet cannot stop killing each other long enough to negotiate. Such a disastrously common issue among many people.

People who scream at one another (no matter what the gender) only attain one thing: disrespect. Parents screaming at children never change a child’s behavior, the child simply learns how to avoid being afraid of them by becoming sneaky.

Brene Brown wrote an interesting talk about “Power Over versus Power With” that I think is relevant to this conversation. Power Over creates intimidation, fear and being right is more important than getting it right. Power With shares Mutual Respect, and becomes infinite when shared with others.

Power Over is based upon creating Fear. And it is the opposite of true strength. A good man, a truly powerful man doesn’t need to control their own emotions because the knee jerk anger wouldn’t ever arise. A truly powerful man is never threatened by others opinions. He leads by respect.

https://brenebrown.com/resources/brene-brown-on-power-and-leadership/

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Thomas Kuegler's avatar

Beautiful words Teyani. Agreed 100,000%

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Craig Verdi's avatar

Tell me what you think the Dalai Lama have done to win peace? Thanks.

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Teyani Whitman's avatar

You have stated your strong views below.

Please hear me when I say that I am not interested in debating, nor even in changing your mind. You are entitled to your opinions as I am my own.

The Dalai Lama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1989/lama/facts/

The first thing that the Dalai Lama does in situations with conflict is to slow things down and ensure that both sides hear and understand each other. This is always the first step when reaching for consensus.

I quote from the speech he made that day (and has consistently held this view throughout his life) :

“As a Buddhist monk, my concern extends to all members of the human family and, indeed, to all sentient beings who suffer. I believe all suffering is caused by ignorance. People inflict pain on others in the selfish pursuit of their happiness or satisfaction. Yet true happiness comes from a sense of inner peace and contentment, which in turn must be achieved through the cultivation of altruism, of love and compassion and elimination of ignorance, selfishness and greed.

“The problems we face today, violent conflicts, destruction of nature, poverty, hunger, and so on, are human-created problems which can be resolved through human effort, understanding and the development of a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood. We need to cultivate a universal responsibility for one another and the planet we share. Although I have found my own Buddhist religion helpful in generating love and compassion, even for those we consider our enemies, I am convinced that everyone can develop a good heart and a sense of universal responsibility with or without religion.“

He would work to impress upon both leaders that we have a universal responsibility for one another. That is the place to begin.

His complete speech and his five step plan toward conflict resolution are available on the web.

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Craig Verdi's avatar

Yassir Arafat, the renowned terrorist received the Nobel Peach Prize in 1994, so that was the end of their credibility. I have learned a lot from Buddhism though I am Christian. His speach is a nice idea but it can’t happen in the state we are in, or have ever been in since man first walked the earth. You may as well Lions not to kill things.

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Teyani Whitman's avatar

Craig. I too have learned much from Christianity. All people want to be heard.

Comparing men to lions is an interesting choice, with a couple exceptions: lions kill for food. Lions kill when threatened. Lions do not randomly act aggressively. Lions can be extremely loyal to humans who raised them.

After years of leading groups in consensus decisions, where every voice needs to be heard, I can assure you that peace is possible with the exception of those who choose “Power Over” instead of “Power With”.

Thank you for asking more, and thank you for hearing out my thoughts. I appreciate the intention to understand.

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Craig Verdi's avatar

So, if another animal comes around and confronts, angers or irritates a lion it won't roar? It won't maim? Or kill? I was going to send you a dozen videos on youtube that show just that.

Not every voice needs to be heard imo. This includes pro-Hamas protesters messing with our kids head while at school. As Christians we don't get into a debate and try to incorporate opinions from Mormons, Muslims, etc, about our theology or the deity of Christ. Discernment is the needed gift.

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Craig Verdi's avatar

Odd, do you mean if another animal comes into his territory with a disrespectful or unsettling approach the Lion won't roar or maim it? Or even kill it? There are plenty of videos on Youtube where you can observe that.

The value of consensus may be overated. We need wise and honest leaders and advisors and that is where discernment comes in. It is not wise to listen to people who we know we should not associate with. We are closed minded as to the nature of Christ and the deity of Christ and such other fundamentals. No need to hear a dissenting voice.

As Americans we don't need to debate communists and Marxists and terrorists. But that is what we do. We don't need to get input from pro-Hamas protestors or trans ideology promoters screaming at us. In fact, taking into account the ideas of someone who is an enemy of Christ is not wise. We need to deal with them in an environment in which they are seeking to change.

I witness to Mormons who are doubters as determined by online questionaires. Otherwise it is like teaching a pig to sing. It won't work and it irritates the pig.

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Henny Hiemenz's avatar

Speak softly and carry a big stick is advice to live by.

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Joyce Martin's avatar

From one moderate (one who looks at all sides and dislikes extremes) to what I perceive to be another, thank you for this! I always tell my students that self-control is what separates the men from the boys, and the women from the girls. None of us always succeed, but to allow ourselves to wallow in our rage and vent our anger so recklessly endangers everyone around us and comes at a high emotional cost. (Sorry--I'm a woman chiming in on your men's newsletter again!)

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Craig Verdi's avatar

It wasn't that big of a deal. No one "yelled," Trump was firm, unwaivering and had the high ground in the argument, IMO. Zelensky cancelled the mineral deal he already had. Boneheaded if he wants more money. Not perfect but that's what men do. Zelensky should apologize. He doesn't have the cards for that. I thought Zelensky should have come hat in hand, with humility and gratitude. We did more than spend money. Now, Trump has three people involved. Himself and the other two. All three want peace. People must be able to save face. He knows Putin is a madman and has a huge ego. He has to frame it as Putin doing a good thing for the world. Zelensky needs to save his honor and dignity also. Trump gets that. That is walking a fine line. Let's pray no more killling happens.

You have to realize that Ukraine was inviting the US and others into their ports, right next to Russia. That is why they went after Crimea. It would be the same as Cuba letting Russia move warships and warheads into Cuba. That is what the Cuban missile crisis was about. Kennedy was very tough. He prevailed. Biden would have pissed his pants and asked for ice cream. What Kennedy did and I think Trump is doing is to be a tough. Very few can pull it off. All three are walking a fine line. Let's pray no more killling happens. Remember what the great Teddy Roosevelt said. "Walk softly and carry a big stick." Ukraine has no sticks without the US.

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Tom Kuegler's avatar

No one "yelled." LOL Craig watch it again buddy

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Craig Verdi's avatar

I grew up in an Italian family. I wish I could send you some clips. There are different thresholds for all of us. To me it was stern, testy, tone was heated. But it wasn’t Tarzan level yelling.

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Tom Kuegler's avatar

Here's the levels between whispering and screaming.

Whispering – Super soft, almost secretive.

Murmuring – A soft, low, unclear way of talking.

Speaking quietly – Normal speech, but lower volume (like when you’re in a library or trying not to wake someone up).

Conversational tone – Normal talking voice.

Speaking firmly – Slightly louder with more emphasis, like when you’re making a point.

Raising your voice – Noticeably louder, often to be heard across a room.

Shouting – Loud and forceful, often to grab attention or express urgency.

Yelling – Very loud, usually charged with emotion — anger, fear, excitement, etc.

Screaming – Full-on, top-of-the-lungs, usually emotional or panicked.

I would say the speech was in this level here most of the time after it got "testy":

Shouting – Loud and forceful, often to grab attention or express urgency.

Would you agree? It certainly wasn't "speaking firmly" --which is what JD Vance was doing at the very start of the altercation-- and "raising your voice" was probably what it was at the start of the outright "testiness" but it quickly went past that point to shouting. Still, below yelling, but to me it almost doesn't matter because we're splitting hairs here talking about shouting vs. yelling. Watching the leader of the free world shout at another world leader is ridiculous in any context.

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Craig Verdi's avatar

Wow

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